Joe Natoli

MASTER SERIES TO GAIN UX MASTERY / S01-E10

Stop complaining and do the right thing with Joe Natoli

60 min
English14 March 2019

In this interview, we are interviewing the legendary Joe Natoli. We start with learning from Joe about how to gain rapport with the stakeholders and then design products that sell.

Joe has an extremely open mindset and his advice on why designers need to step up the game instead of waiting for the permissions is extremely powerful.

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TIMESTAMPS QUOTES BOOKS ABOUT COMMENTS

TIMESTAMPS

[04:29] What is User Experience?
[06:24] Importance of the business side of UX and how to incorporate that in our designs?
[08:21] Why the involvement of everybody in an organization is important?
[12:17] How to tackle the situation of getting into a victim mindset?
[16:00] How not using UX terminologies can be beneficial?
[19:16] Two things young designers should avoid doing better in UX?
[24:46] Biggest learning as a mentor?
[34:12] Things that can make your portfolio stand out.
[38:33] Essential skills that UX designers must have?
[42:12] How can someone analyze what kind of career they should opt for?
[46:12] How to make a decision whether a certain path/client is wrong?
[53:20] How to get projects to work on?
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QUOTES

  • UX has two sides. We talk about Users all the time because the user is in that term ‘User Experience. But the truth is, the business side of the equation is just as important.
  • If people get value from using something. What should happen is, the value should also go to the organization that created it.
  • When you get opposition, it’s usually one of the two things. The first thing is often fear. And the larger problem is usually that they don’t understand how those things that you are proposing to do are gonna help them get what they want.
  • If you have 8 hours a day, figure out what you can do. If it’s user research, user interviews, testing a prototype. I don’t care what it is but do something. There’s always something you can do and you should do it.
  • The minute you put yourself on that pedestal of “I have to educate you”, you’re not having a conversation anymore. You’re not having a give and take. You’re having a “you don’t know anything and I have to educate you.” Nothing good comes from that ever.
  • What needs to happen is you need to develop the courage to go forward and take a step and try something even if you feel like you don’t know what you’re doing. Feel the fear, do it anyway.
  • Don’t redesign something that’s already successful. Take something in your own life you feel like isn’t working. Any product you think like it’s failing you.
  • You can’t be afraid to ask questions. You can’t be afraid to try to figure out what you don’t know.
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BOOKS

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Think First

by Joe Natoli

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The Inmates Are Running the Asylum

by Alan Cooper

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The Design of Everyday Things

by Don Norman

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Don’t make me think

by Steve Krug

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Just Enough Research

by Erika Hall

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About Face: The Essentials of Interaction Design

by Alan Cooper

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The elements of user experience

by Jesse James Garrett

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COURSES

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ABOUT

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Joe Natoli,

UX Mentor, Consultant, Author, and Writer at Give Good UX

Our next guest today is Joe Natoli who has been preaching and practicing User Experience for 27 years now, even before UX was known as UX.

So far, he has helped Fortune 500 and 100 organizations, build solid Products and UX practices from scratch. He is a well-known public speaker who has shared his knowledge at platforms like Interaction South America (ISA), HOW Design Live, SDD and QCon and also at regional events like PechaKucha.

He is also the author of THINK FIRST, published worldwide in 2015 which, according to the legendary Dr. Don Norman is “a very practical guide to UX success in business.”

His courses and books are one of the first resources that aspiring UX designers encounter when they are starting their UX journey.

He has so far trained 140,000+ designers through 6 of his online training programmes. Two of his courses on Udemy are the best-selling and most popular courses in the UX category. You have to see the online reviews and stories shared by his students to believe the impact he’s had on his students.

Though his students and clients like to claim that Joe has a sixth sense for UX, Joe believes it is the focus on results and the time spent with the clients on framing the right problem that makes great User Experience.

A no-nonsense guy, Joe trains his students to deal with the reality of working in the messy corporate world instead of what he calls “UX Fantasy land.”

Joe follows a no-technical-jargon policy which means he refrains from using UX terms, fancy and complex processes and instead talks the language of people he is speaking to. In that sense, Joe is empathetic to not just the users but also everyone involved in the product development.

His articles, advice, and videos are shared generously by Joe on his platform givegoodux.com.

If you think he is doing all that because he is Joe Natoli, he did not have it easy. Since the beginning of his career, Joe has been willing to be the guy who will raise his hand and ask uncomfortable questions when it was needed for the interest of the business. Which means he has fallen down but always stood up. In his own words, “you do NOT have to ask for anyone’s permission to do the right thing!”

It is this honesty, fearlessness, confidence, and humility that has made him one of the most loved UX mentors around the world.

Read More

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Other episodes(9)

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Episode 10: Stop complaining and do the right thing | Joe Natoli

14 March 2019, 60 minutes

In this interview, we are interviewing the legendary Joe Natoli. We start with learning from Joe about how to gain rapport with the stakeholders and then design products that sell. Joe has an extremely open mindset and his advice on why designers need to step up the game instead of waiting for the permissions is extremely powerful.

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Episode 9: How to understand what UX actually means | Preeti Sheokand

7 March 2019, 50 minutes

In this episode UX mentor Preeti Sheokand sits with us and shares how she transitioned from being a scientist to a UX designer successfully. She shares why defining what User Experience means is the most important question that one must answer to create a meaningful UX career. Preeti also shares framework to critically evaluate the designs. Preeti also shares the inspiring story of her design school – Design Shift and how she is designing a unique curriculum for every aspiring UX designer.

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Episode 8: How to design a life and a career you love | Karthi Subaraman

28 February 2019, 55 minutes

In this episode we sit with Karthi Subbaraman, the founder and Chief Design Officer at Xperian School. Karthi brings with her a wealth of new insights and perspectives that force us to look beyond design in the context of just interfaces and products. Karthi has learned and taught how to use the design principles for not just designing products but for designing your body, life and even death. She asks some really uncomfortable questions which will make you look harder at your own life and choices you make. Karthi also tells us why designers should embrace business mindset and how they can do so. She defines designers as “sense makers”.

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Episode 7: Why designers should embrace storytelling | Amit Patel

21 February 2019, 40 minutes

In this episode we talk UX designer and mentor Amit Patel. With no formal degree in design, Amit went on and learned UX by talking to users, businesses and doing a lot of work. He shares with us how asking right set of questions can be a game changer. He talks about the things he is teaching his students at his design school – Experience Haus. Amit focusses a lot of attention on the art of storytelling and shares a practical framework to design a story for your product.

Episode 6: The skills that will make you a great UX Designer | Sudhir Mor

16 February 2019, 55 minutes

In this episode, we bring to you Sudhir Mor who is the co-founder of Design Shift- a UX School in Banglore. Sudhir shares his incredible and inspiring design journey with us. He is empowering his students with not just conventional design skills but also giving them exposure to different industries, businesses, and technology. His perspective on design education is very unconventional and practical. You may not want to miss this episode if you are struggling with how to create a perfect portfolio, as he shares some awesome tips on that too.

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Episode 5: How to bring visibility to UX research in your organization | Upasna Bhandari

7 February 2019, 60 minutes

In this episode UX researcher Upasna Bhandari shares with us how she used her extreme academic research skills and implemented them in one of the best startup of Singapore. Unlike typical research studies which can be months long, Upasna is setting up agile research processes which are more suited for fast paced startups. While she is doing it she is making sure she is training the stakeholders and her teammates within her organization in user research.

Episode 4: How to look past the default and create an amazing life story | Paul Millerd

2 February 2019, 45 minutes

In this episode, we sit down with Paul and learn how to think beyond the default path. He shares why winning the prestige bingo is not the only way to succeed and tying self-worth to money is a bad strategy. He teaches some tactical strategies and questions that can help you create a powerful personal story.

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Episode 3: How not asking questions can be holding you back | Menaka Chandrasekhar

26 January 2019, 48 minutes

In this episode, Menaka shares with us the lessons from her very successful UX career. Having worked in diverse industries and organizations, Menaka shares some of the most practical ways to create a rewarding UX career even when you don’t know where to start.

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Episode 2: Why is it necessary to have an empathy inside and outside the organization | Markus Hofman

17 January 2019, 50 minutes

In this episode, Markus Hofman tells us why designers should master empathy for their users as well as for their own organization. Working very closely with the business stakeholders as well as end users, Markus offers a different perspective on how to contribute better as a designer.

Episode 1: How to get the education of a lifetime | Xavier Bertels

7 January 2019, 60 minutes

In this interview, Xavier shares with us how he successfully transitioned from Graphic Designing to User Experience Design. A successful design entrepreneur with a deep interest in music and martial arts, Xavier shares how education is not a one-time event that stops at a degree but it is something you do for your lifetime. He further discusses how did he start his company, how they navigated the challenges of the remote work and how he has created a solid culture within his company.

Bonus: Why Designers must learn Storytelling | Jake Knapp

3 minutes

In this video, Jake Knapp - the author of NY bestselling book Design Sprint and Make Time tells us why Storytelling is one skill that every designer must master. Jake explains how designers can leverage storytelling to gain empathy with users, share their story internally and build teams and then share their solution with the users.

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